{"municipality_id":"albany-county/bethlehem","meeting_id":"granicus-2422","meeting_date":"2026-02-03","text":"Welcome to the February 3rd meeting of the Bethlehem Planning Order. Traditionally, these proceedings are recorded and will be made available both live and on the child's website. Unfortunately, this evening we're having some technical difficulty, so we are not live streaming at the moment, but we are a recorded meeting, and we'll upload that to the website after the meeting. At the record show, we do have a forum and the meeting is called to order at 6-12. So we have some public comment period portion for this evening. A couple of different things. We have a public hearing that we have scheduled, but ahead of that, we have public comments for two different projects. First one is 50 Adams Place. Is there anyone here this evening for public comment for 50 Adams Place? Let's call to the microphone to hear your name and your comment. Good evening. My name is Christian Dreibusch. I'm here with my wife, Elizabeth Dreibusch. I wanted to initially acknowledge the efforts of the Diving Board, the professionals of the I also wanted to note that on September 27th of 2025, in fact, the government's papers submitted a 21-page document with respect to the position on this project. That is part of the record. I didn't see the agenda, but I can believe that it's part of the record. That document included declarations as well as materials reflecting information for the lack of the tank. Specifically, there's some uncontroverted... Excuse me, one second. I'm not able to hear you. I'm asking for me tonight, but it's not working. Okay. We should speak louder. Thank you. My apologies. In that the document that we had submitted, there were certain facts that were established with the underlying documentation, specifically for the record, that according to the town's tax records, Adams Place has 67 residential buildings, of which 62 are single family homes and five are two family homes. That are three unit apartment complexes. Number two, most of the properties are owner-occupied. Number three, parking lots with more than four spaces do not exist on any residential lot. We can turn a providing between one and four spaces. Number five, the town's tax records indicate that no area varies as more than four spaces. Number 6, the Town's tax records indicate that no area of permits has previously been granted on Adams Place that would permit development of a three unit apartment complex. Also, that the existing residence is generally compliant with setback requirements. That this particular project of 50 Adams does not comply with the setback requirements. that 50 Adams Place was developed as a single-family residence in 1915, and has been continuously operated as such, with the exception of a small-hancelled dental office that ceased operations six years ago. And finally that there was community members that voiced concerns about the proposed development. I say that because those are the facts that are in the record and part of the record. And so, in reviewing the agenda, there was a proposed letter. That letter, pages 111 through page 113 of Vire's agenda, and it provides conclusions. And the conclusions and recommendations for the Zoning Board of Appeals include that the The site plan layout maintains the character of the neighborhood, and number two allows the development of three dwelling units in a matter that is compatible with the surrounding area. And based upon the documentation and the records, the actual records, the town's actual records that are being recorded, as well as the affidavits, again, or evidence, I think it would be both an arbitrary and capricious exercise in the board's discretion to make that recommendation based upon the record that's currently reported. It simply doesn't support that the conclusions are made in the proposed letter. Christian, could you just identify the letter who it was addressed to, just so I have that on the record too? The letter that I'm referencing is the agenda letter or... The one you referenced in our packet? Yes, absolutely. So within your packet, it's pages... The letter you sent. Oh, my letter? My letter, unfortunately, is not within the packet. I'm asking for when you sent it. The letter was sent on October 27, 2025 and acknowledged by the town of Bethlehem being received and written part of the record. But who was it addressed to? It was addressed at the town of Bethlehem. But it was provided to all members of the Planning Board as well as Council for the Planning Board as well as the zoning board of the field members. Great. Thank you. So it provides everyone. I just wanted to make sure we had another record. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else for 50 Adams? Good evening. My name is Catherine Stompey. I live at 56 Adams Place, two doors down. And I wanted to reiterate points made in prior meetings regarding concerns about traffic and how it backs up onto Adams Place. Concerns with obviously bringing more spots into that corner location, which is already very tight and crowded as people are bringing their kids to school, and as we have many children coming back from buses from both middle school and the school across the street. So there's great concern there, as well as long term what the precedent is that this sets for potential other development or desired variances by others in the community moving forward. Thank you. Thank you. What else this evening? 450, have a split. Thank you. Our other public comment project is 55 McCormick Road. Anyone here public comment on that project? Seeing none, we do have a couple minutes to discuss and then we will get to our public hearing which is 457 South So first off, minutes of approval. I have a motion and a second for the minutes of Tuesday, January 6th. So I will do the first time. Second, second, second, second. Matt, did you have a comment on those? Yeah. Oh, did you have a comment on that? I did not. Okay, okay, no, nothing on those. Are we all set to approve? All in favor? All right. The motion passes. and next up is Tuesday, January 20th. I have a motion and a second to approve those minutes. So moved. First by Scott. No. Next by Patty, all in favor? Aye. Aye. The minutes passed, thank you. Our next item is the public hearing for 57 South Albany Road. I have a motion and a second to waive the reading and open the public hearing for 57 South Albany Road. So moved. First by Scott. All in favor? Aye. We have the subdivision portion of an application from Albany Road Solar LLC, also known as Seaboard Solar. They are at 57 South Albany Road. This property here, this is South Albany Road. And Old Quarry Road is over here. So the solar facility application is including this two lot subdivision. So there is a lot one is located in this area, it will be retained by the property owner. Second lot is with solar facilities going just here and property is bisected by Albany award of the City of Albany Water Board property. It's on the agenda tonight for the public hearing of the two sub-divisions. Okay, thank you very much. Anyone here for the public hearing for Seaboard Solar? I have a motion to close the public hearing. First, I read. Second. Second, Vice Scott. All in favour? Aye. Any other updates or next steps for this evening? Yeah, at the next meeting on February 17th, the board will have an opportunity to approve the project. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Alright, so our next item up is 50 Adams Place. This evening we are looking at a project update. We'll just start it off by mentioning that this is a bit of an evening project for us that this evening, while we're talking about a letter to go back to the zoning board, we are not approving any project. We are just talking through what our request was, and any project would go back to the CBA, and then if it moves forward, the CBA would also come back to the zoning board. I just wanted to mention that. We're going to get a snap a minute before we get going. Thank you, Brian. All right. So, yes, tonight we got a discussion of a planning board recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals regarding an area variance application they received for 50 Adams Place. so project update tonight and possible action on a recommendation to the town zoning Board of Appeals so the applicant is seeking an area variance to allow an additional residential unit to be included in the existing building at 50 Adams Place currently the size of the lot only allows two residential units in the building. Two in change, but the town rounds down to two. And so the request to the ZBA is to grant a variance from town zoning law to allow a third unit. So the ZBA requested assistance from the Planning Board to better understand whether any site plan issues would affect how the ZBA assesses that request for the variance. The project was before the Planning Board at the August 19th meeting to introduce that variance assistance to the ZVA request and planning board discussed the proposed use the site layout parking and stormwater management as well as screening and then the process for kind of reviewing that request from the ZBA. So following that meeting the applicants made some revisions to the site layout plan and you know we're here for project update and then a possible action to provide that recommendation loader to the ZBA. With that, I'll turn it over to Nick Daniels with ABD to go over that. Nick Daniels with ABD. Since last time we were here, we've gone back and forth with engineering and planning. I just want to highlight some of the changes we've made. A lot of it is regarding stormwater and the screening. With stormwater, we had stone-lined channels before. On the left side there we took that out so now we'll have a nice grass finish to better appear a much nicer landscaped area um you could slide over along the side yard and the rear yard we provide solid vinyl fencing and at the southern side of the property line on the rear yard we've increased the screening with trees with arborvitae. We also provide two options for discussion here tonight. Can you slide over to the detail? So as we currently show it, the first option is arborvitae that are spaced six feet apart, kind of staggered, but it's really not much room. And the second option below is arborvitae, four foot on center. And in doing so, you'll increase the number of trees. if you could slide back over to the plan view oh that's that's right yes so the first option has a fence to where it meets the existing fence on the neighbor's property where it meets the six feet so there's two fences one is a four foot one is a six foot so the six foot proposed would extend to meet the existing six foot to provide a six foot buffer or a six foot high buffer along the entire southern property line. And with the forfa on center spacing, we remove that six foot fence. So there's two options we can look at. It's a matter of what the board feels comfortable with, what everyone feels comfortable with. You know, we're okay with either option. and also to provide this planting bed we shifted the parking spaces about three to four feet closer to the building so it's further away from the property line allows planning bed and more trees so this is essentially the only changes we've made and I can answer any questions that you may have I think you're looking for some recommendations for us for which option? Correct. And my would be the tightening up of the putting those Arborvitae's four feet on. Sure. I'd also suggest, I don't think you specified or Luigi didn't specify a species or or a variety of the arborvitae and what I'm recommending is that you use the smaragd if you're familiar with that and s-m-a-r-a-g-d otherwise known as the emerald green arborvitae okay it's um it's only going to get uh to 10 to 15 feet in this instance probably maybe around 12 feet high where the other varieties often go up to 30 feet so it's not going to require all of a larger space and it can grow and be healthy at a four foot on center spacing which is what you're sure specifying so you can do that that's what i would suggest putting one fence behind the other just causes a lot of problems and having that higher screening obviously in the first couple of years it's not going to you know fully screen the area but if we plant them if you plant them at five to six feet high it'll they'll grow 10 12 15 inches the first couple of years so okay that should work pretty well so that would be my suggestion I don't know if anybody else has suggestions I agree with that idea I think my only question would be about the fencing and and this unfortunately can't be a dialogue with the next-door neighbor here this evening but I would request that you and the owner work with the neighbors to see if you could replace the whole fence with a six foot fence so it would be at the applicant's expense but it would be on the property line and I think that would be like the best of both worlds I'm not sure if that would be agreeable but to me it seems like six foot fence would be way better than a four foot fence not knowing what the sentimental value of the existing fences it just seems like it may be a worthwhile compromise, but something to keep in mind. Yeah, we can discuss. Yeah. Great. I agree with that as well, Brian. And I think if you can even tighten it up with Scott, if we, I'm just going to ask you again, adding some additional or providing in closer rather than the spacing right now may also provide greater screening. I'm not in support of the FEMS at all. I'm going to disagree with you. Leaving it at four feet wide is going to be a healthier plant. One of the problems with arborvitae is when you grow them like hedges where you put them very close together. After a few years, you're not going to have enough circulation, especially since it's backing right up against a fence. It'll be more disease resistant. And so I think four feet on center is probably a good spacing. Yeah, and they'll die on the edges where they're too close together. Thank you for adding them in. Brad, any thoughts on screening? I'll defer to Scott. He's a tree expert, and I do agree. So, yeah, I concur with Scott's recommendation regarding the arborvitae. And also with barriers regarding the fencing, because that's more immediate and we provided screening to protect the neighbors, provide privacy. So I concur with both. One other question. Do you want to ask something, Ralph? On the fence, if we can still stay on that topic, just so I'm clear. So right now there's an existing six foot fence, but that only runs a certain length of that rear property line. It then transitions to a four foot picket fence. Are you suggesting that there be some, maybe there's an opportunity for the four foot picket fence to be replaced with a six foot rather than replace the fence in its entirety? Right. I wasn't aware of that nuance. I don't know if you can explain where the four foot, where the line is there. Yeah, right where those two leaders are right there, that is the limit of the four-foot fence approximately. And then the six-foot is to the right? Correct. The remainder is six-foot. Gotcha. So on the plan, what we show right now is a proposed six-foot property line, then four-foot. Right. So in doing so, removing the four-foot, I mean, that's something we can discuss with a neighbor, but it makes sense. If we're putting a fence in any way, it makes sense. Yeah. So, Brian, I think that's where it's helpful to pay a little more attention to the detail here. So the code, Rob, is there four foot on the front, along the front? Because we know that the six foot is permitted on the side and the rear, but not the front. The four foot section is not the front. Is that right? This area here that we're talking about is at the rear or side of the property. So six feet. Six is allowed. Correct. What I'm just trying to convey is there's an existing fence on the neighbor's property. A portion of it is six feet. The back rear, it has a four-foot picket fence. This detail here shows that a new six-foot fence would be placed in front of the four-foot fence to keep a six-foot area of vinyl fencing. But it would have one fence in front of the other. Okay, so the new six feet, you can just zoom in there, Nate. Right, so the top line, so the top line with the boxes running a short distance would be a new six-foot fence. The lower line is the existing four-foot. And so that was my understanding, too. So I'm supporting the six-foot fence in the permitted area. for that small size. And then on the plane, it also shows the six-foot fence running on the side yard along the neighbor's side yard of Adams Place. They can zoom in on that. so right now the the proposal shows the six foot vinyl fence going from that along the western property boundary along towards the front six foot white vinyl picket fence and then at the building here so here's the transition here is at the building line where the front yard begins and then this section is proposed as four foot vinyl picket fence and when it says picket we're talking solid not for the four foot that I'm assuming is like a traditional picket fence but for the six foot that's a solid correct yes right when I think picket I think space right I mean personally I'm not a proponent of vinyl fences is is the only color option so I've never researched it white no there's black there's colored fences I'm just wondering if you've discussed it with the applicant and the neighbor regarding the color fencing as well I I mean, we can look into that for sure. So, Nick, the fence on this side right now, the label says picket. But if this is intended to be solid, which I think we're expecting it to be solid, yes, that's a typo. Yes, we'll fix that. The six foot should be solid, not picket. So maybe that's just something, Nate, we could mention, amend in our draft letter. you know discussing that the board had a discussion of the fencing options encourages the applicant to work with the adjacent homeowners to determine location and extent of fence heightening that's a word lengthening making it larger. That seems like it would be helpful. Outside of our purview a little bit, I think, but one kind of question I have as well is in regards to, I don't know if you could just zoom out a little bit, Rob, on this. It does seem like, I think we've gone in a better direction with the parking that you're not heading parking towards the bottom of this drawing, but there are still going to be you know headlights as you're coming in and just wondering if that was evaluated to push everything a little bit more forward because I assume the parking places are on the left you have also two parking places on the right or is that the backup area on the right those are two spots on the right right yeah so you're gonna have kind of coming in and out there again it's just something to know I think it would be helpful to maybe note that in the letter as well that it may be something to ask the ZBA to ask the applicant to evaluate what the parking would look like if you had two units versus three to see kind of what those impacts may be because this does seem pretty tight in this location against the property. So just to be clear, Brian, the letter would be asking the ZBA to evaluate headlight glare coming into the site? No, I'm not saying maybe I'm thinking, I don't think it's in our purview to ask the applicant to look at the parking requirements for two versus three units. That's what they're asking the ZVA for. So I don't think we necessarily can ask that, but it would be something I would be curious for the ZVA to evaluate as they're looking at it to see what the impervious area, like what this mass of parking would look like if there were less units there? Well, I think, I mean, the planning board's role here is looking at the site layout. And if there are any site layout items that the zoning board should be aware of as they consider the area variance, okay? Parking is one of the items that we are considering as part of this site layout, okay? So the board in reviewing this plan is looking at a proposal for a six space parking area at the rear and side of the property. You could, you could, I mean, you as part of your discussion tonight could look at that and consider if two spaces were removed, would that change, you know, would that change anything? Right. So you could see that there's six spaces here. Two units would require four spaces. two units, you know, the applicant would still have a similar layout to achieve four parking spaces, right? So whether the two units on the end are, you know, whether these two units are, these two spaces are removed or these two are removed, what you're doing in analyzing the location of the parking spaces is, will there be an impact? and you're reflecting on landscaping is going in, solid vinyl fencing is going in to address any potential impacts from headlights or location of the parking located next to the property. Right. I would just advise that that discussion is part of our review rather than asking the zoning board, giving the zoning board direction to review it. Gotcha. So I might turn it back to Scott. I mean do you think that a six-foot fence and these trees are gonna block the headlights and like any of those kind of park it is a parking area compared to a driveway right I don't think it's an issue the headlight issue any other board member questions or comments on that I'd actually like to make one comment here this is not intended to change what you're proposing right now but the town of Bethlehem's code is very conservative when it comes to parking requires 10 20 foot long spaces as you probably have seen Nick there's a number of codes where the length of required is 18 feet with a 24 foot aisle and we don't have a requirement for parking lots for an aisle width as far as i know i mean traditionally we call for a 24 foot wide aisle space which is the width of a regular roadway so you have especially in commercial lots where you have opposing traffic driving within that aisle space you could and this is not a commercial parking space parking a lot so that 24 foot aisle space that you're showing I think can be reduced and you'd still be in conformance with board the code unless I missed something but correct we don't have a aisle width however if they do consider that reduction of the aisle width we'd want to see that the vehicles can still back out and make that that's right so that'd be something they'd want to they'd want to put a turn movement on that to make sure that they're not reducing that aisle to the point where they're backing up into the vehicle behind part behind them so we know 24 is enough space to achieve that if they're going to make it less they would just have to show that the vehicle can still make that yeah generally it can be done like I say it's not a commercial parking lot right it could reduce them the amount of runoff there's some advantages to it so when it comes down to the site plan approval process if the board wants to consider that or if you think there's a great advantage to it Nick I would I I mean, I'm not going to be able to comment on it from here on out, but I'll be, I'd like to make that comment and just put it on the record. Yeah, I think that's a great idea, especially for maybe even, you know, the spaces towards the top here, top left of the parking array, you might be able to shift those in a little bit as well to give yourself sorry left those two spaces right especially that one space is pretty close you know in the front left corner there so if you shifted those in a little bit you know there may be some sort of creative layout to make it so yeah it functions yeah we can look at that yeah but I don't think anything to hold it up but just something to know you know as we go through and continue our review. You can make the letter, again, if you choose to move ahead of this, is the letter could reference that the planning board, you know, could review or reduce aisle width, the time upside plan review, subject to meeting turn movement maneuvers. Right. I think that makes sense. And then the driveway, maybe if you could scroll up to that, that is obviously narrowest of the building. And then the width here, do you know what the overall width? I do not. It seems like a two-car width there. At least yes. Right so that's another kind of question or thought I had in terms of if you're not expecting parking to occur there that needs to be that wide and I don't know if there was a combination to accommodate two cars correct maybe do in residential areas you do have a driveway that allows for two cars to park or maneuver side by side this would be similar to that in some areas yeah right but not everywhere not everywhere but I guess I'm saying is it's not uncommon to have a driveway with there allows for the parking or movement of vehicles side by side. That's all I'm going to tell you. Yeah I'm just thinking though if we're not expecting it or preparing this to be a parking driveway. Correct. It's just access that it might be able to be widened wide or narrowed narrowed in spots or something again to reduce some of that asphalt area. Yeah. Again just something to kind of keep in mind moving forward. And I don't know what sort of other engineering comments you've gotten that may have contradicted that, but just a thought I have looking at it. Sure. Rob said it's standard for a traditional driveway with, but this has parking that's not expected to be on that driveway. We'll take a look and see if we can reduce it. That's no problem. Great. Nate, were there other items you were looking for our feedback on this tonight? No, that was the only kind of major item for board feedback. Great. And I definitely think the improvements to the drainage swale much improved, and I think that will fit a lot better in this area. So thank you for working with us on that. Okay. So with that, tonight the action that we're looking at is to authorize me to send a letter to the Zoning Board outlining our review on the project as well as these recommendations that we've discussed this evening is the board comfortable making that recommendation tonight I am I'm good with the way through it okay Patty okay great so can I have a motion in the second to approve the recommendation to the zoning board as discussed and as amended so moved first by Scott second second by rad all in favor aye aye the motion passes thank you very much thank you all right our next item this evening Our next item this evening is 55 McCormick Road. When Leslie is ready, we'll have a brief intro and then we can open up the... we have a new application this is jrg builders LLC it's a three lot minor subdivision application at 55 McCormick Road in Slingerlands and this is the initial presentation the property is along McCormick Road it is on the western side of cherry ave or helm ave extension which is over here mccormick road comes down from the west and there is an existing property here is actually three three lots existing so the front lot is up along McCormick Road and then there are two lots in the back and the application is to take these three properties and redraw the subdivision line so there are three parcels all with frontage on McCormick Road for proposed residential homes so it would be more long narrow lots along McCormick except for this lot here would actually extend and have this part of the property in the back as part of it. So the applicant is here tonight to give whatever presentation they have and answer your questions. Great. Thank you. Good evening. Jared George, JRG Builders. as Leslie mentioned project overview minor subdivision of three parcels totaling about 6.4 acres owned by J.R.G. builders not whole camp homes we took title to it last week area proposed for development was previously cleared and graded by the prior owner we're proposing again three conforming residential lots for single-family homes within the core residential zone all All three lots exceed the current bulk and dimensional requirements. It's also worth noting the town zoning update project anticipates reduced minimum lot widths in the zone so the proposal aligns well with the direction of the zoning code. Lot one is approximately three acres with 75 feet of frontage. Lot two at 1.6 acres with roughly 70 feet of frontage. lot three at 1.7 acres, 70 feet of frontage. All three lots will be served with public water, sewer, gas, and electric. We submitted the project to SHPO last week, and we'll have a letter of no effect shortly. Regarding wetlands, wetlands were delineated by Kevin Weed, the Van Gilder surveyors, on June 6th of 2025. We did receive a letter of no jurisdiction from D.C. on 10-14 of 2025 and that was for specifically the front parcel where we are developing we did obtain jurisdictional letters for the rear landlocked parcels but it should be noted and DEC's letter specifically states that there are no regulated freshwater wetlands and or adjacent areas identified identified on the parcel contemplated for the three new homes closest wetland is approximately 95 feet from the proposed home on lot 3 for context the DEC general permits will typically allow up to 75 feet of disturbance within a hundred foot buffer also should note that the house to the to the west has similar distance to the wetlands as a proactive step we reached out to six neighboring property owners to the east to see if there was any interest in purchasing a portion of land at the rear of lot one through lot line adjustment while a few neighbors appreciated the outreach and responded there are no commitments at this time overall this immodest code compliance of division that is consistent with the surrounding residential character utilizes existing public infrastructure and has been coordinated with the appropriate reviewing agencies the plans will be revised and updated in response to the comments outlined in the January 29th memo as well as any additional engineering comments received thank you very much any board member questions initial questions this evening seems pretty cut and dry lots of information here lots of good information presented thank you leslie did you have any questions for us this evening no we are still waiting for engineering to review the project and we will need a grading plan so it's just the first step in the process okay that's all for board member questions I'd like I would like to see the engineering report. I think I may have some questions, but I'd like to see what they say first. Okay. Rob, did you have a question? Yeah, Jared, could you just explain? You said you had the other two parcels. You had a JD for them? Yes. So can you give us that? Yeah, there were a positive determination for the two landlocked parcels in the rear so down at the same time that we received the negative for the the front parcel that we disturbed that we are disturbing so when you say front and rear are you talking two and three are there other lots that you own so right now there's there's three parcels three tax parcels so the front parcel where the homes are proposed it's about 0.9 acres so we're only developing that section. And then there's the two parcels to the rear. So the two parcels to the rear, DEC sent us a positive letter of jurisdiction for wetlands. But the front parcel where we are going to build on was a negative determination. So. And the distance between those is greater than 100 feet? I assume we'd want to know that information of like what they claimed and what the distance is, even though you're not disturbing it, but just to have that for our records. Right. So for, as I mentioned in the letter, the parcel that received a negative determination specifically states there's no freshwater wetlands or adjacent areas on that parcel. So to us, that means there's no 100-foot buffer on that parcel. So there should be no concern for us as it relates to where the wetlands are on those properties. I think if you were separating out those properties and keeping them under ownership and not impacting them at all or not having a lot line adjustment, I think what you're stating is factually correct. But because you're doing a minor subdivision, which will include the area where the cursor is, we would need to know the additional information there. unless I know we do have precedent I'm thinking of like Bender the back of some of those parcels that they didn't down the slope they didn't want to get that far so we said okay whatever is at the top of the slope and we made them justify and treat it as though it was a wetland right but we need the grading plan here to show us that so you're giving an example on Bender of a property that we had the grading plan and showed that there would be no disturbance so in this particular case we're just at the beginning stages we need all the information. Yeah I don't think anyone's disputing that we would need the additional information I'm just saying we might look to that as an example of how we've treated this before so if you can show us that you're not grading anything in the rear that would be very helpful so providing us a grading plan to show us that there's no disturbance in that area would go a long way so I just want board to understand from this information Jared is sharing with us what I'm hearing from him is that these wetlands here okay as I'm indicating here you receive a positive jurisdiction determination yes on this rear parcel yes these wetlands are considered under state jurisdiction yes Yes. The parcel up front, you received a letter that says there are no state wetlands and there's no adjacent area. The question that we may want to just get clarification from DEC on is, if this is a state wetland, I'm indicating this is the closest point of a state wetland here, does the 100-foot buffer or adjacent area of this wetland line extend into this property, and could that buffer be affected by the grading plan that Leslie is asking for the applicant to provide? That seems to be the question we need to find out. So I would say then, if someone comes in for a shed permit, a fence permit, you should go to the next-door neighbor and see if there's a DEC wetland that has an adjacent 100-foot buffer onto that property you're going to. But this isn't the next-door neighbor, Jared. This is your property. But what I'm trying to say is... Can you stop and not raise your voice? this is your property that you own, as you told us. You own both sides. You own the part that you're proposing homes on, and you own the other side. As part of your proposal, lot three extends all the way down through that state wetland, correct? Correct. So we need to know where the boundary is and what the buffer zone is on that wetland. So I just want to talk this through because I had a discussion with our consultant, Kevin Weed, who the board's familiar with his work in wetland delineation and working with the DEC so he said and this is a good probably good practice with the EC said the letter specifically states that where we're going to build and develop the parcel has no adjacent areas or wetlands so I mean that's something for DEC to say is that the case or not the case do we look off-site or do we stay specific to the parcel you're going to develop because 100% our grading area is going to go into a 100-foot adjacent area. But again, DEC is allowing impacts up to 75 feet of an adjacent area through the general permits. So. I'm curious how the request was made and in this scenario you would have, could you, could we ask for clarification or request this again from DEC for all of the parcels? It seems like you've sort of like segmented it. So you have the parcel to the north where the property is, and then you have the parcel to the south. But both are being asked of us to review. So we have to review it as though it's one, not two separate parcels. Correct. But the only way to submit for the JDs is to do individual tax parcels. So that's what I did. So you can't state that it's one project over multiple parcels? Three on the portal. So it's three separate applications because three parcels. And that's how I submitted it. So maybe you could reach back out to DEC and indicate, hey, these are all three parcels are one project. The town is asking for a combined review of all three. Can you provide us further? I think that's what really the question is. Because even though it's multiple parcels that you requested, I find it hard to believe because there's lots of sites that involve multiple parcels that they're only looking at it individually. It has to be project based at that point, I would think. So we can't do anything, I think, until we have that information at this point. I think at a minimum, we should have those lines shown to us on the map to have Kevin put those lines on the map. Yeah, it's a 100-foot buffer. So it's the lot one, 100 feet from the existing wetland, is going to go basically up to maybe 10 feet of the rear of the proposed home on lot one. But again, as we know from the general permit, DEC is going to be allowing a homeowner to put a patio in, to put a pool in. So we have to be realistic in what's realistic. I mean, the conversation here is not in any means to restrict, you know, the development of these three laws. I think we just want to make sure that DEC is aware of the full information. We're just learning today that there was a positive deck on the property in the rear. It's new information. And, you know, there should be outreach, and we can do it from a planning staff level to DEC to say, we now have a subdivision application before us. You'll submit us the positive deck letter. We have these two letters from, you know, UDEC. Will the adjacent area extend into the front lot? And if so, how would you, you know, do you need to review that? You know, so it just needs to be some information sharing with DEC. so that you as a board have all the information before you when you're making a decision on one seeker and then two you know site layout grading and and um and approval that that's really where we're at today makes sense yeah i just i just you know from the memo it said that the practice is to show 40 feet of usable space from the rear home but again if you're going to draw the 100 foot line you know you're not going to have 40 feet you're going to have 40 feet in adjacent area, you're 99 feet away from a wetland from those homes. So that's the response. Jared, we don't have that response, right? You're saying something you've read that that wasn't in our packet. For, well, from the response you're talking about right now was not in our packet, correct? In the memo, it talks about how the town looks for 40 feet of usable space behind a home. I'm just saying that it'll be 40 feet into an adjacent area if there is an adjacent area. That would be based on our previous reviews of projects that have wetland in the backyard. What we're saying is that we want to just make sure that that disturbance within the 40 feet is going to be permitted. So it's part of the review. So that's why it was mentioned in the memo. Right. Yeah. It's 100 feet to a wetland. Yeah. Darryl, you had also said before that DEC is allowing some up to 75 foot impact, but that's not across the board. That's per event and their look at it and their determination. Yeah, that's not a wholesale statement. that's from our consultants. They said for a situation like this, the general permit may allow up to 75 feet for the likes of a pool, sheds, patios, et cetera. And I think the operative word there is may allow. And allowing a homeowner, existing homeowner, to possibly build a deck in that rare area, to me at this point with looking at subdivision approval impact with building and grading changes which is why I wanted to see what the engineering report says is very different than building a rear deck on a homeowner's backyard. Rob, can you clarify this is a subdivision application not a site plan review so they're not proposing the development, the construction of buildings yet, which would be much more detailed, as you mentioned, in terms of grading, drainage, impact on the wetland. Do we need this level of detail at this point for just a subdivision? We do. We do. The subdivision does need to look at grading, drainage, and even because this is a a site located next to adjacent existing homes you do have the ability to you know locate those homes you know along a street front you know the core residential zoning district talks about compatibility with surrounding residential structures so you do want to look at the location of the home the grading around the home to make sure that it doesn't drain onto neighbors properties changing the water flow and that the location of the home doesn't cause an impact on neighboring properties. So a subdivision set will have multiple seats. You'll have the final plat sheet showing the property boundaries, but you also have a grading plan that shows the house location, the driveway, and the topography of the lot, along with maybe there's a drainage swale on the property to handle stonewater. Traditionally, those are very conceptual, though. then they would process is also to still go to the building department and get a building permit for each law. Only in select circumstances have we gotten to additional detail of like, this usually shows a building envelope, not an actual established building footprint. We have had some instances where we've gone to additional... That's why I said in the locations where you have essentially you're building three lots or designing and laying out three lots amongst adjacent homes, there is value to look at the location of those homes. When that subdivision is a major subdivision and it's a 40-lot subdivision with a new road, you're typically not building directly next to existing property. So we allow shifting of the house on the property. Here, where it's a minor subdivision with adjacent homes on either side, you do want to give some focus on where those homes would be located. For the frontage. For the frontage. We would show the frontage. Correct. Not the exact building envelope, or not the exact building footprint, but the building frontage. Correct. To try to establish what that consistency is across the road. Exactly. So, for example, you may not want to, from a neighborhood standpoint, you may not want to see these homes pushed all the way back to where they're now in the rear yards of the adjacent properties. You'd want to see them hold that front setback line so you have a consistent street frontage continuing down the roadway. Exactly. That is something you can look at during this minor subdivision review. Yeah. and we are holding it to the front setback to keep it you know the building line you know consistent with the neighbors yeah okay any other questions this evening so in terms of the wetland question rob do you think it's most appropriate for town staff to reach out to dec for clarification or request the applicant to do that what i figure it might be helpful to have a clear marching orders at this point we've had good communication with dec will buto has been very responsive on other projects that's why i i suggested yeah you know copy jarred yeah we'd like to be uh copied with kevin weed as well great yeah so i don't think we have the positive declaration yet so if you send those to us then we can reply with dec contacted so we can get clarification okay sounds good leslie any other items you were looking for our feedback on tonight no not tonight Thank you very much. Thank you. All right that concludes the project items this evening in terms of new business slash announcements. I do have a resolution that I would like to read out this evening. It is one of our colleagues last board members or board meetings with us so this is a resolution I'll be reading and hopefully we can adopt at the end. So this is a resolution of appreciation for John Scott Lewenden, whereas Scott has faithfully served as an appointed member of the Town Bethlehem Planning Board from January 14, 2015 through February 16, 2026, and his work on behalf of the residents of the town was always performed in the most professional, ethical, and steadfast manner, and whereas during his tenure, Scott brought to the Planning Board a strong commitment and thoroughness and insightful outlook towards development, a judicious respect for property owners and a sincere desire to provide and preserve a desirable quality of life for the citizens of the community. And whereas using his experience in landscape architecture, transportation design, land planning, and site development in both public and private practice, and his volunteer work as a member of the town's bicycle and pedestrian committee, as well as the street tree advisory committee, Scott has helped to promote mobility and connectivity for bicyclists and pedestrians and ensure the landscape of our town will forever be lush with vegetation. And whereas his contribution to matters important to our community's growth and long-term planning during the comprehensive plan update and zoning law and subdivision regulation updates were invaluable. And whereas in recognition of his unwavering service and diligent work as a planning board member, the undersigned individuals with whom Scott has served for the past 11 years, hereby express their appreciation for his contributions and extend their best wishes for his future endeavors. Be it resolved that these sentiments be entered and preserved with the official record of the Bethlehem Planning Board and proceedings and copies of this resolution be presented to Scott as a lasting personal momentum for his dedication and service to the town residents of the town of Bethlehem. Can I have a motion to approve? So moved. First by Patty, second by Rad. All in favor? all right i abstained thank you very much scott we really appreciate it thanks that's that's uh that's great and uh it's very nice to be cited for my work on some of the other committees too so it's uh i think i'll still be around town occasionally um i want to thank all my past and present board members it's been a pleasure working with you all and I especially want to thank the staff you guys are the greatest you come to these meetings so well prepared it makes our job much more easier we have all the facts in front of us when we make a decision and it's it's great and I want to talk a little bit about some of the experiences I've had over the last 11 years and I don't know maybe Jared you can get this out because it's to some others because it's I'd like to address the quality of of the professionals that come before this this planning board. I've seen some very very good things. We develop a wonderful exchange of ideas. I know I get a little carried away sometimes with design because I am a design professional and there's a wonderful exchange of ideas and it makes the job our job much easier and I think the design professionals that come in front of this board are they're much appreciated a couple of years ago it's interesting we we had a somebody from the the public approach us after a meeting and they said why don't you guys I've never seen you deny an application and the answer to that was well if the application is that bad they generally walk away and we don't have to deny it but most of the time we work out something with the design professionals and the applicants and it's a great exchange of ideas and I think it's going to continue on in the future with it with all of the professional work of the staff and the dedication of our planning board so thank you very much it's been a pleasure over the last 11 years. Thank You Scott. So with that, can I have a motion to adjourn this evening? So moved. Scott, do you want to second it? Second. Is it your last time? Okay. First by Patty, second by Scott. All in favor? Aye. The meeting is adjourned. 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